Holding The Man

I appeared tonight on ABC Radio’s Nightlife with Phil Clark, alongside occupational therapist Lisa Alexandridis, to discuss the practical realities of using mobility scooters. I shared my personal experience as a recent mobility scooter purchaser and amputee, focusing on the freedom and independence it provided after a period of limited mobility.

Here are some of the key points I talked about during the interview:

• Personal Mobility Journey: My decision to get a scooter followed a lower limb amputation (right leg) two years prior, compounded by a broken right hip, which led to the realisation I needed a safer mobility option due to osteoporosis.
• The Scooter’s Impact: Getting the scooter three or four weeks before the interview made a “huge difference,” allowing me to regain independence by getting to and from work (1.5 km away) and avoiding reliance on public transport and taxis.
• The Assessment Process: I strongly recommend working with an Occupational Therapist (OT) and trialling multiple devices before purchasing. I tested a large, medium, and small model before choosing the smallest one that suited my size and living environment.
• Funding and Independence: I obtained my scooter through the NDIS (National Disability Insurance Scheme) as “assistive technology.” The scooter reduced my need for day-to-day community support funding, granting me back my independence and the freedom to go to the supermarket whenever I liked.
• The Mobility Scooter Community: I noted the unexpected benefit of joining an informal “mobility scooter community,” where users often greet each other or share tips on accessories (like Martin’s solid tyres).
• Range Anxiety: I confessed that I experienced “range anxiety” on the first day, running out of battery 100 metres from home, and subsequently always carry my charger. I noted that, in a pinch, the scooter can be manually pushed in freewheel mode.

Nightlife Radio Segment – Listen To Audio

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/nightlife/motortorque-for-mobility-scooters/105859988

Nightlife Radio Segment Transcript (Transcript is generated through AI, so there may be some errors)

Guests and Presenter

• Presenter: Phil Clark
• Occupational Therapist: Lisa Alexandridis (Director of ADAPT Wellbeing)
• Mobility Scooter User: James O’Brien (ABC family member/amputee)
• Caller: All other contributors

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Phil: Nightlife with Phil Clark on ABC Radio. Now whether you’re considering a mobility aid for yourself, helping a loved one navigate options or maybe you’re just curious about how it all works, this hour is for you, all right? We normally cover transport and car choices a lot on Motor Talk here on the program. What about though if you’re seeking transport because you are living with a disability or getting old and this is the only way you can get around these days? Well, we’re going to cover everything we have from the nitty-gritty of motorized wheelchairs versus scooters to training and funding options and even the social side of the scooter community.

If this is you, give me a call 1300 800 222. Joining us tonight, Lisa Alexandridis is Director of ADAPT Wellbeing in Adelaide. She’s an occupational therapist who worked across mobility assessments and mobility aids.

She may well have been on a few scooters herself. Lisa, good evening to you, welcome to Nightlife.

Lisa: Good evening, thanks for having me.

Phil: Terrific to have you with us too. Also joining us tonight, James O’Brien. Now James recently went through the process of getting his own mobility scooter.

James is part of our ABC family, of course, you’ve probably heard him on the radio many times over the years and it’s opened up his life in lots more ways than just being able to get around. He’s found a whole new community as a result of getting his first motorized wheels. James, good evening to you, welcome to Nightlife.

James: Hi there, Phil.

Phil: Terrific to have you with us. And the lines are open 1300 800 222.

If you’ve got a question or experience or you’d like to just pass a tip on about what scooter is best. Hey Lisa, can we start with you at the beginning? When someone comes to you saying, how do you get one of these things? And should I get a scooter or a motorized wheelchair? What’s the first thing you look at?

Lisa: The first thing that I’m really looking at is why the person feels like that they need some sort of mobility aid and what they’re using at the moment. So usually that would start off with an assessment at that person’s home and looking a little bit about their physical capacity and, you know, things like their height and weight as well.

How they’re able to transfer off a seat. We’d probably also look at visual concerns to make sure that they’ll be safe if they’re driving a mobility aid around. And we’d also be looking at things like their cognitive ability to make sure that they could problem solve around things that might come up and their home environment so that we know that the device can be charged and stored at home appropriately.

And once we’ve gone through that process, which is quite an in-depth process, we would look at starting to trial some options, probably an equipment provider to start off with and then also in the home environment.

Phil: You don’t need a license for these things, do you?

Lisa: No, you don’t. You don’t.

And you don’t need to have prior driving experience at all either.

Phil: Okay, just letting people know. Can you walk us through the difference between a motorized wheelchair and a mobility scooter? Why would you choose one and not the other?

Lisa: So a wheelchair has a smaller profile generally, so that might be something definitely if you’re going to be using it indoors around your home, you’d most likely prefer to go down the path of a wheelchair, whereas a scooter you can use a bit more freely in the community and will travel a bit of a further distance potentially.

But it really depends on what your intention is with the aid as well and a little around how easily you can get on and off the device as well. A wheelchair is going to be easier for transferring than a scooter.

Phil: James, why did you get one? What led you to it?

James: Well, two years ago I had a lower limb amputation, my right leg.

I had an infection, sepsis, all of those sorts of things and so I lost the bottom half of my right leg a couple of years ago.

Phil: Was that your kicking leg?

James: No, it wasn’t. I’m left-handed, left-legged.

This is the lower right. And then about six months ago, one of the issues that many amputees face is the falling over and I fell over six months ago and I broke my right hip. So I’ve had a full hip replacement as well.

So these two things have really changed my mobility status in the last couple of years and I’ve been getting around with a prosthetic limb in the last two years. But really I think it was the realisation of that I have osteoporosis, so I might break the other hip as well, that I needed to actually have something that would get me around a bit easier. It would reduce the risk of falling over but also get me to places that I haven’t been for a couple of years.

Phil: Yeah, that’s right. We just see, you take mobility for, I mean you can, you’d have fresh memories of this, James, you take mobility for granted when you’ve got it, don’t you?

James: Absolutely. If you’ve got both limbs, you can go anywhere you want.

Yeah, look, I’m just revisiting, I’m going on a holiday overseas, holiday next year and I’m just working out now what I could do five years ago but I can’t do now. And it’s things like, you know, asking the hotel, you know, how many stairs have you got? It’s going to a country where there’s snow and ice and thinking, oh my goodness, how am I not going to fall over? So there’s, it’s been a really dramatic change in my life the last couple of years and getting the scooter about three or four weeks ago now has made a huge difference to my mobility once again.

Phil: Are you going to take it with you?

James: No, I won’t.

Look, I don’t think I, I could actually take it on a plane. That’s really interesting because it’s, the one I’ve got is actually small enough to take on a plane and you can take things on planes and as mobility aid and so on. So I could, but I don’t, I don’t think so.

Phil: My guest tonight, Lisa Alexandridis, who is an OT, an occupational therapist. We’re talking about mobility assessments and mobility aids. And James O’Brien, ABC’s very own James O’Brien, who’s gone through the processes, he’s just heard of getting his own mobility scooter.

Hey, give us a call, 1300 800 222. If you think you know the best one, or you’ve got some tips, thoughts or wisdom you want to pass on.

Caller: Alan from Geelong’s got a cracker here.

Phil: Hi Caller.

Caller: Hi Phil, how are you?

Phil: Not bad. You’ve got one yourself?

Caller: Yes mate, I’ve got a couple.

I’ve got one I use for long distance and one for short distance. But the problem is when they break down, if you get a scooter dealer or wheelchair dealer, they’re an arm and a leg to get fixed. Except if you’re in the RSL, not the RSL, in the RACV.

Phil: Okay, this is the Victorian Motorist Group. Yep, yep, yep.

Caller: $30 a year, get you full cover on a wheelchair or a scooter.

Phil: Hang on, is that right? You can join for $30 and they’ll come out and fix you?

Caller: Absolutely. I’ve used them twice now. I had a flat tire coming back from the RSL one night and they were there within half an hour, pumped it up for me.

And I’ve got a rain canopy on both of them. My rain canopy fell off and they were a bit heavy for me to try and put back on by myself, so I called them up and they were out there within three quarters of an hour.

Phil: How good’s that? These are just the normal crew in the normal RACV patrol vehicles, are they?

Caller: I would say they would be, but yeah, they were just great folks that can’t do enough for you.

Phil: Will they fire you up if you’ve got a flat battery?

Lisa: I think they probably would have some means of recharging it up just to get you home. They often do have something in the back that they can help with and we often recommend to people getting a mobility device to consider joining so that they have got an option exactly in that scenario.

Phil: Thanks for passing it on.

Is that the case, Lisa, with most state-based motor routing organisations?

Lisa: I can only speak for SA, but definitely here in SA if you join the RAA they can help it out as well.

Phil: Where are you, James? Oh, you’re in New South Wales. Are you in NRMA here?

James: No, I’m not actually, but I did read the last week and only in the last week that NRMA in New South Wales also has wheelchair assist, so I’m going to join.

I think it’s great.

Phil: Caller from the Gold Coast. G’day, Pete.

Caller: Hi, Peter. G’day, Phil. How are you going?

Phil: Yeah, pretty good.

Have you got one?

Caller: Look, I’m just going to share my story, mainly because, probably a bit unique, but seven years ago, I was diagnosed with IBM, which is actually a muscular condition, where the body’s immune system attacks muscles, and particularly the quad muscles. So I now live alone, and if it wasn’t for mobility that I have, I wouldn’t be in my house. So that’s the first point.

The second point, and I’d like to comment on this. In my journey, I’ve been very disappointed that the OTs that I’ve been dealing with just don’t seem to have an idea of what is out there and what’s available.

Phil: What do you use, Bob?

Caller: Well, number one, I can’t walk.

My legs have to be perfectly straight, so I’ve got a walker, an elbow walker that I just sort of shuffle around the house. I can’t walk at all other than that.

Phil: What about getting down to the shops? Have you tried one of these scooters?

Caller: Oh, no.

I’ve actually got a mobility scooter, but where I’m coming to is that I am very tall, and to stand up, I actually have to have my legs straight before I stand, and to that, I need to have chairs and other things, which are a vertical lift, and basically, I was just disappointed that the OTs that I’ve dealt with, they just weren’t aware of it. So first of all, from Canada, I got what was called the Toilavator. It was a collar that went underneath a toilet to raise it up.

The seat that I now have is a complete vertical lift. The one before used to lift and tilt, which put me out of the chair beforehand. I’ve got a Pride Jazzy 2 wheelchair, which also lifts up very high, and you can get out of that.

I have a hospital bed, which I can get out of as well. Now, all of these things let me exist and look after yourself.

Phil: Yeah, but the mobility aides that are out there, they’re incredible, but they just don’t seem to be well known by even some of the OTs.

Well, that’s part of the reason, Bob, why we’re doing the program tonight. Can I put that back to Lisa? Lisa, what do you make of Bob’s criticism there? I mean, one of the reasons we wanted to do this program tonight was to try and spread the word a bit.

Lisa: Yeah, and I think particularly in Bob’s situation, it sounds like that’s quite a complex issue to be trying to deal with, especially if I think you said, Bob, that you’re a taller person as well.

It is really hard to find aides that are adapted to the more extremes of height and weight, whether that be big or small. Lots of them are tailored to what they consider a standard size person. When you’ve got complexities like not being able to bend your legs, that makes things much harder.

But we do try and keep on top of what’s around as much as we can. That’s also why we work closely with the equipment providers in our local areas, because that’s sort of what they’re working on all the time is looking at the new products coming in. That’s why we want to work hand in hand with them to make sure that we are finding the best fit for the person.

I think it’s always really good when I’m working with someone like Bob who knows what they need and have found some options that work really well for them, because that really helps me as well to know more about what’s out there.

Phil: What did you find, James? Did you find there was a good variety on offer?

James: Well, I did a bit of research. I went on YouTube and there are a lot of reviews on YouTube.

A lot of them are American, but there’s quite a few Australian videos as well where they actually give you a test to show you how the vehicle works and so on. So I did a bit of my own research, but it was really relying on the OT to bring in a service provider who could bring me and show me those vehicles that could help me choose the right one. Because you can look online and I could just go out and buy something which is on Facebook Marketplace or something like that and I could just do it.

But I found it was very useful personally to actually get the right one for me.

Phil: You got yours through the NDIS, didn’t you?

James: I did, yeah.

Phil: How did you find that process?

James: Look, it took a while.

NDIS is a little bit slow at the moment, but it came through. So it’s considered assistive technology. And one of the arguments I had is that I would need less support in terms of day-to-day support.

So for example, I have some funding to help me get out in the community and so on, that I would need that less. And I actually haven’t been using that at all. So I’ve been able to reduce my reliance on community support by being a bit more independent.

I also felt, look, I felt a bit funny about some of the things with NDIS funding. For example, I didn’t want to ring up and say, hey, I want to go to the pub this afternoon. Can you take me? I wanted that independence.

I didn’t want to have to rely to Friday morning between 9 and 12 to go to the supermarket and things like that.

Phil: I get that. I get that.

1300 800 222 is the number we’re talking mobility and mobility scooters. And Lisa Alexandridis is with us as an OT. And James O’Brien, who’s a user and a new purchase, a recent purchaser of his own mobility scooter.

Lisa, the big one, funds and money and so on, James got his through the NDIS. Is that, if you are qualified, sorry, if you do qualify, is that the best path to go through? I mean, because if an able bodied person who wants a motor vehicle goes to a car dealer, where does somebody who needs a mobility scooter go to?

Lisa: Yeah. So if you’ve got a disability and you’ve got an NDIS plan and your disability is one that affects your mobility, there’s definitely capacity for the NDIS to fund that.

So long as you get an occupational therapy report that is arguing for that funding to be provided as part of your plan. So like James said, it can be a bit of a drawn out process because there’s that assessment process and that report needs to go to the NDIS. So we’re talking it’s not going to be days or weeks.

It’s more likely to be at least a couple of months, most likely longer to get that through. But depending on why you’re finding a reduction in your mobility, there might be some other funding bodies as well that might be able to help out. So the aged care system, through the home care packages, you can get a mobility scooter. There would also be, you know, if you had an injury through a motor vehicle accident, there would be some compensation schemes there as well that would be able to help you.

And there’s always the option to fund it privately as well if you’re in the position.

Phil: How much do they cost, Lisa?

Lisa: An entry level one could cost sort of from $2,500 up, but I’m probably not looking at those most of the time. They’re going to be really basic runaround ones.

We’re probably looking more in the realm of $5,000 plus. And wheelchairs are completely variable. They could sort of be that $5,000 to $8,000 mark as well.

But when we talk about one of the gentlemen before was talking about one that had tilt and lift, and it sounded like it was a scripted one, that’s looking more in the tens of thousands of dollars.

Phil: Really? Tens of? You mean 20 or 30?

Lisa: 20, 30, 40, depending on the extent of supports that you need in the chair.

Phil: But you can get a pretty useful one for less than $10,000, can you?

Lisa: Yeah, a pretty useful one.

You could get probably around $8,000 or so, I think.

Phil: How long do they last?

Lisa: Five years would be the average lifespan. If you really run it into the ground, it might not last quite as long.

Phil: If you’re thrashing it, do you mean?

Lisa: If you’re really thrashing it and really giving it a good go. But they could last a few years longer as well if looked after properly and serviced regularly.

Phil: It’s a significant expense then, isn’t it?

Lisa: It is, it is, yeah.

Phil: Considering a car could last 10 years, I suppose. Well, longer. Plenty of our listeners would have 20-year-old cars.

Lisa: Really important to get them serviced and maintained as well. So there’s a, particularly if your device is funded through something like NDIS or My Aged Care, you’re likely to be able to access some funds for servicing and maintenance, which should be done at least annually.

Phil: Okay.

Caller: Lynne from the Central Coast. G’day, Lynne.

Caller: Hi, how are you?

Phil: Not bad.

You’ve bought one?

Caller: Oh, I’ve been using them since a man built his own first one, and I purchased it from him about 40 years ago.

Phil: Oh, really? Okay.

Caller: Yeah, I had little kids and I lost the ability to be able to walk, so I had to learn to walk again.

And I used his scooter and graduated through a wheelchair. Then I found that very difficult because I have severe joint problems. And yeah, all these years I’ve been able to still raise four little boys with the help of my husband, of course, and go places with the family.

It just opens up a whole new world, like James said. It’s just an amazing thing.

Phil: Yeah, I can imagine.

Thanks, Lynne. I can imagine. It seems to me, Lisa, that, I mean, I’m in a well of ignorance on the matter too, that they seem to be relatively recent items in terms of being generally available.

Is that right or not? I mean, for previous generations, you didn’t see them around so much.

Lisa: I think they’ve always been around, but I think things like NDIS and things like the home care packages has made them more easily accessible for people because, like you say, it’s not a cheap thing to invest in. And possibly people are starting to become a little bit more accepting of purchasing something to help with their mobility and seeing the difference that it could make in their life, particularly if they’re not driving anymore.

Phil: Caller from Kingswood. G’day, Penny.

Caller: I was having a problem getting one, and I’m wondering whether it’s just my railway crossings.

But to be able to cross the railway crossings where the pedestrians do, it’s very difficult to get through.

Phil: Because you’ve got to go over the tracks.

Caller: Yeah, well, you’ve got to go around those bends to get, you know, how the pedestrians.

Phil: Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do. Yeah.

And how do you get around them? Are there better crossings elsewhere? Have people thought about this at railway stations and things? Or do you know? That’s a good question. Lisa, I imagine this is the sort of issue which people with mobility challenges face every day, don’t they?

Lisa: It is. And especially when you consider things as well, like often going into a train station, you might have to go down or up a really steep ramp.

And unfortunately, a lot of those stations are just not made for access and mobility. And I always encourage people to write to their local members and things like that, to try and advocate for some better supports. But certainly, when I’m working with a client, that’s some of the things that we’re starting to look at as well and problem solving around that.

Is it safe to possibly go on the road to go around the pedestrian crossing and cross with the cars? Is that a safer option? I think that’s the sort of things that we would be looking at to make sure that the person had the most access and ability to get around if they could.

Phil: Play on your roof, in other words.

Lisa: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: Have you stacked it yet, James?

James: No, I haven’t. But it’s interesting, that whole thing. There’s this phrase in New South Wales public transport of mind the gap.

And I’d never really paid much attention to mind the gap.

Phil: Because you stepped over it.

James: That’s right, I stepped over it.

Until about three weeks ago when I kind of got stuck halfway across. But some people who were getting on the train gave me a bit of a push. But certainly some of the footpaths in my neighbourhood aren’t great.

And I haven’t stacked it yet, but come pretty close.

Lisa: And that’s again why we offer once we’ve delivered the aid, we try and offer some training as well to the person about how to approach things like curbs and footpaths and ramps to try and make sure that you’re getting the right angles and things so that you don’t have those issues and don’t get stuck. I think the worst thing that sort of happens is that people get stuck and panic.

And then it’s a lot harder to get out of the situation rather than just sort of committing and going with the power of the chair or scooter to try and get up.

Phil: But I guess, yeah, that’s right. I guess a lot of it is probably sitting down and thinking, what’s the route I’m going to take and what’s the best way to get there rather than just heading out the front door.

I mean, you know, if you don’t have mobility issues, you head out the front door and face problems when you come to them. But a lot of these problems might be insuperable unless you have thought about it.

Lisa: Exactly.

Yeah. And, you know, again, that’s why we always recommend working with an OT, because that’s what we do. We are looking at all of those things that might come up and asking you questions like we were talking about before.

What are you going to do if it breaks down? What would be your plan if you run out of battery? All of those sorts of things so that we can try and prepare as much as possible for any type of risk that might come up.

Phil: Plan ahead. Caller from Frankston.

Hi, Martin.

Caller: Hello. Good evening.

Phil: Bit croaky in the throat.

Caller: That’s all right. I have a full size mobility scooter.

Yeah. And in the early stages of driving around, I was talking to somebody else on a mobility scooter and they said they had a flat tyre and they had to push it home. Yeah.

So I looked on the website where I bought my scooter and they had the option of solid tyres. There’s no tubes. It’s filled with some sort of foam rubber.

So I estimated that 90% of the weight is on the rear wheels. So I had a pair of solid tubeless tyres fitted on the rear. So…

Phil: Oh, okay.

You have a pair of run flats on the back, Martin.

Caller: Yes, that’s it. The other thing I want to mention is sometimes if I’m going home on the footpath, somebody’s walking ahead and they’ve got their earbuds in and they don’t hear me tooting the horn.

Phil: Yes. You need a better klaxon, Martin. Come on, get into one.

Caller: I will. I’m going to get one of those ones they have on the bikes where you squeeze a rubber ball.

Phil: That’s it.

That’s what you want. And the other final thing I want to mention is when it comes to recharging those lithium-ion dangerous batteries, you can buy timers. You need one that runs on 240 volts and you can select the amount of time, either two, four, six, eight hours.

So you can put it on two hours and not have any worries. It’ll just shut itself off.

Phil: Okay.

Good tips. Thanks, Martin. Okay.

Good on you. Bye-bye. What are they like uphill, James?

James: Look, where I live is actually fairly hilly and they slow down quite dramatically going up the hills.

Phil: But they don’t clag on the hills, do they?

James: No, but it slows down and it also uses more power to actually go up the hills. So I was out on a hill today and it slowed down significantly. But mine isn’t particularly high powered or anything like that.

Phil: It didn’t stop though?

James: No.

Phil: Okay. Did you consider, I mean, this is talking tech here, I suppose.

Did you consider power and all that when you got it?

James: No. No, I didn’t. Look, I was just relying on people who knew what they were talking about because I didn’t have any idea.

But the interesting thing is I found that where I live, there’s quite a few people using mobility scooters. And we have this little thing now where, you know, like when you’re on a country road and you’re driving along and you haven’t seen a car for a little while and people just put their finger up. G’day.

How’s it going? I’ve had that happen quite a bit. And I’ve had quite a few conversations with people about, oh, where’d you get that from? So there’s a mobility scooter community now, which you never had access to before.

Phil: No, no, no.

James: And we compare things. Like he said, oh, I wouldn’t have those tyres, you know, when I was talking to a guy down the street the other week. I’m just thinking, is there a muster? Is there a mobility scooter muster? I think in Harvey Bay in Queensland, I believe a couple of years ago, they tried to have like a muster of these.

And there are some different towns in Australia, particularly with an older population where there are lots of them and so on. One of the things about the older population too, I just wanted to mention, is I’ve spoken about this with a couple of friends who are around the age of 80 now. And look, they’re on the verge of losing their licences because of driving and that sort of stuff.

And I said, look, get a scooter. And they will not hear it. They won’t even be open to the idea of getting a scooter.

Phil: Because they think, oh, well, that means that’s going to mark me as something.

James: That’s right. Yeah, absolutely.

And I just say to them, look, just give it a go. Go and try one. Caller reckons everyone should have a flag.

G’day Meg.

Caller: Hello. I’ve been dealing with these things, these mobility scooters for years, since before a lot of people were born.

Phil: In what capacity, Meg? Oh, you’re a palliative care nurse, is that right?

Caller: Yeah. And I used to drive around the suburbs and in the bush a lot. Is there any rule to say that they should have flags? Because when you’re backing out of somebody’s drive and they’re lower than you and you’ve got blind spots in your car, gee, it can give you the creeps that you nearly, you could have, if you’d been two minutes earlier, hit Mr. So-and-so.

And I always used to pull, because I knew most of the people in the bush, I’d say, I’d pull up and say, where’s your flag?

Phil: There’s no requirement, is there, Lisa?

Lisa: No. No, there’s not. There’s no requirements about flags.

It might be recommended for the person, and some people may choose to have them because they feel safer with them, but it’s not a legal requirement.

Phil: I bet you don’t even have to wear a seatbelt, do you?

Lisa: No, you don’t.

Phil: You’ve found them, basically though, pretty safe, have you, James, in your own experience?

James: Oh, yeah.

Look, so far it’s been great. I’m quite cautious when it comes to going through areas where there’s lots of traffic, for example. I had to laugh, I shouldn’t have laughed, but I did laugh a few weeks ago.

The New South Wales Transport put out a video of people who had near misses with the light rail in Sydney, and the man who lives across the road from me was on a mobility scooter. I went, that’s Gary, it’s Gary, and he nearly got hit by the light rail. I take it very carefully.

Caller has texted in saying, I had to replace the battery, which cost me nearly a grand. It’s not cheap.

Phil: No, well, like all things motoring, I mean, even mobility motoring, it isn’t cheap.

What would you say, James, to people who are sitting at home right now thinking, yeah, maybe I should, well, I don’t know. What would you say to them?

James: I would say, early in the piece, I was offered the option of getting a motorised wheelchair, and I said no. I had this stigma in my mind about that, and I said no.

But then my sister got one, because she was until recently late 70s, and she had one. I just used it, and I went, oh my goodness, this is such a good. She lives in a country town, and so I was able to go to the supermarket for her on the scooter.

It helped me out, and it helped her out. That was really the breakthrough. Then when I broke my hip, and I needed to get around, I hired one myself to see what it was like, and just try it.

That’s the main thing. You don’t know unless you try it.

Phil: Good on you.

All right, look, time has beaten us. Look how much fun we’re having when we’re discussing motoring. We always do on the program.

We’ve been talking motoring of a different kind tonight, but look, if you are considering getting one, or you have thought about it, or you think, oh no, that will just mark me out, check it out, as James said. Check it out. Take it for a test drive and see how you go.

Lisa and Alexandrides, thank you for your advice and chat tonight. It’s been great.

Lisa: Thank you very much.

I just wanted to say as well for the people that are a bit worried about cost. Just quickly, because we’ve got to go. Sorry.

I was just going to say, consider the cost of a taxi or whatever else you’re using for mobility. That’s where you’re saving the money, but thank you so much for having me.

Phil: Good on you, Lisa.

James, terrific. Happy motoring.

James: My pleasure.

Thank you.

Phil: James O’Brien with us as well. He’s the news.